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GamalielRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate book


Warren,

"But last of all {this thread} appeared also to me as if to one born prematurely." (1 Cor 15:something-or-other)

Thanks for letting me know about this thread. I enjoyed it thoroughly. Reminded me of memories I forgot that I had.

For me, this is one of the best kinds of threads to read. Bethel was about the best thing that ever happened to me (at least from 1976 up to 1980). It can be the perfect jumping off point (weaning ground) for JW's realizing they can never go back home.

Your brother,
Greg


Tom: I'm about to go on vacation in a few days. So I'll try to get in touch before then.

Randy: Warren gave me some updates after contacting you. Glad to see you're still going strong. Great site! Great CD's!

CoonDawg: That might have been me giving the talk in St.James. One year (77) I gave some of my own recorded interviews with Fred Franz, Grace DeCecca, etc. On one of my last visits (80) they let me give a talk on the book of Hebrews. Letting us "premature apostates" give our own truly Bible-based talks only lasted a few short years. I left around '82 when they started cracking down on that sort of thing. My talks were basically just compilations from "the best of" my RLengtat notes or JNapolitano, even CAulicino, etc. I'm not a great speaker, but you could still tell that audiences were often hungry to get a talk that went outside of the outlines.

Speaking of great memories, I helped build that house for Roberta out near the Jones'es just before I left for Bethel - from pouring the foundation, several of the wall frames, even putting the tar and shingles on the roof. I remember Vivian and Becky were great fun when we had to go out in service together. We had a great game we used to play where we would talk over each other as fast as possible -- seemed like about 300 words a minute. But it all had to make sense and be responsive to the other person's logic and questions, which were also coming at 300 wpm. Finally one person lost by either flubbing up the fast talk, losing the logic of the "conversation", or usually by bursting out laughing. I recently tried that game again at age 50, and I'm already tongue-tied at < 50 wpm.

TD, Jeff, etc, etc: Great to see so many of you still here.

Saltpeter? Is that really better than a dishonorable discharge?
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PoztateRe: Re: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate book

Tom... Thanks for your insight on this. I believe that that freddy got caught up with his own prophecy's. He, like most would like to believe death would never come to him. With the power of the pen he was able to make that fantasy come to pass. He did seem to live in his own little world especially towards the end.

  Rutherford....Self serving...A..Hole. If he was alive today we would recognize him easily. He was like many if not all televangelists of today. He accumulated power,wealth (mansions, cadillacs ) and the adoration of his followers. He cared nothing about the flock but only his own self interests. He managed to reinvent the whole book of Revelation to revolve around himself and his deeds.

 I got out in 1982 long before the exposure the Internet has given to this cult but I still like to see threads like this that help to uncover the secret story about Bethel, the WTBTS and the fight to root out free thinkers.

Thanks also to Randy and his great site....  www.freeminds.org

   POZ

 

  

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Dogpatch  Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
Cab sums up the entire organization from Rutherford to now. SAVE THIS: Rutherford, on the other hand, was not deceived IMHO. He was nothing but an opportunist who saw a golden opportunity in Russell's disappointed followers. He stepped right into Russell's shoes and published the seventh and final volume in Russell's series. But the tables got quickly turned when his little scheme landed him in jail. So he fabricated the whole story about captivity, and set out to create an "organization" (the word means a group of people used as a tool, it was used during that time in connection with labor unions), his own little army to send out, primarily to take revenge against the Catholic church for the role they played in having him, a "Judge", imprisoned. That, I think, is where he came up with his whole fabricated story about God needing to "vindicate" his name. No orthodox Christian ever thought that God's name needed vindication. God needs nothing from us, least of all vindication. That was just Rutherford talking about his own need for self-justification and vindication as being a really good guy, even though he had been put in the clink. That is my informed opinion, anyway. may be yer opinion, but it is very succinct! Randy
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DogpatchRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
sorry, formatting difficult ??
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amicusRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
Reggie Dewar

I knew Reggie Dewer, didn't he wear bow-ties all the time?  He sold me first pool route (junk accounts he didn't want) when I started pioneering in Canoga Park congo in '72? I believe.  I always got the feeling no one really took Reggie seriously, but he seemed to have pull.  Nice guy, but different, in  Used Car Salesman kind of way. His oldest daughter was a hottie, long red hair.  As different from Reg as someone could be. 

 

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FishermanRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Back in the 70's, bethel had a couple of beautiful sis (all married). Any one remmeber sis Eva W.(polish)?  Not many single sis. I remmember the Ledley sisters, the woodulf sisters, There was another sis daughter of missonaries who grew up in Bethel. I think her name was pat. There werent any interracial marriages either. Fiirst brother to marry a black sis in Bethel was some dude that worked in bindery maintanance.

I remmember wondering when I saw the single sis in bethel Where did they find these women!   Now I realize that a beautiful sis could always marry a bethelite and come to the Bible house but  a woman without physical beauty could only come if she was accepted . It is hard to find a mate in the org. I remmember that NHK and Audrey's secretary ESther L. was not married. Did  she evr find a mate anyone know? Some single sis in Bethel eventually got married Ive been told.

A walk on the promenade, booze on the towers roof, you had all the time in the world back then.

Before the mayflower lot of BA's. These guys did absolutley no work and they did not get kicked out either, faked out all of the time. They got stuck in the bindery and did time. But in may they could leave before serving their time and still be respected.

On baked fish days sometimes I ate shrimp in the chinese restaurant on Cadman.

It was great to get in for free at the museum with the bethel Id and the 10% discount at the movie theater and at the local store! What savings, realy lucky!

There was a chracteristic smell inside the factory of glue and ink and other stuff. Never forget that factry smell. The home also had an odor. I think it was that green soap. You knew you were in Bethel, you smelled it you saw it you heard it you felt it.

There was no racism in Bethel watsoever. What I found strange though is why most annointed Christians and ALL Gov body were white. Only white or german kings?

Although one was in NYC, one lived in a diffrent world it seemed. The world was the wts back then.

 

 

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jschwehmRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Hi All:

When I was at Bethel, I worked on the Paint and Scaffold Crew. This was when the JWs were buying up property in the Heights like crazy. However, if I remember correctly, they did not buy it up directly. They had a front corporation known as Co-Hi that bought the Bossert and the Standish and then let the Watchtower Society use the buildings and remodel them. I think this is how they got to buy the property on Columbia Heights where the old Margaret Hotel once stood.

I can remember this very guy in a suit coming in periodically and visiting and inspecting the remodeling work on the Bossert periodically. Everyone said that he was in charge of Co-Hi.

I am wondering does anyone know anything more about this group? Around 1988, Co-Hi gave the properties it owned directly to the Society.

Jeff S.

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ImFreeNowRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate book
With regard to the Co-Hi group, it was basically a financial syndicate of people the invested or raised money from different sources to buy the real eastate. It kind of shielded the Borg until they took ownership. One of the main people in that group was from Michigan. He may well have been they guy you saw periodically. He was in New York so much (sometimes half the month)that he bought a home in Patterson to live there when he was on Borg Business. He was a pretty well healed guy that I new very well. They were always tapping those with money, although it was somewhat descreet. Although I was never a member of Bethel I was there many times. My folks were well connected at the top and supplied many of the top players with cloths and money....especially Couch. He really wasn't a very nice guy. Because of my deep involvment in other areas of the organization during my Eldership I was also in NY a number of times on company business and attended 4 annual meetings(it was worth it just to see the old timers on the "Launching Pad" in the front rows just waiting to be ejected to heaven....LOL Does anyone here know Martha and Ray Rambo. Been in NY since the 60's. I think they called her the laundry queen because she worked there so long taking care of everybody's dirty cloths.
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GamalielRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
Fisherman,

In the 70's, after 4 years of pioneering -- much of that time spent with sisters about my age -- I had fully expected Bethel to be sisterless. I spent only a couple months in the bindery before getting transferred to the air-conditioned Photoplate department on 1-8, and there were 3 sisters there and several more on the same floor doing proofreading/translating. I did artwork and graphics all day sitting on a high chair at a large glass "light table" next to a single sister, and after a promotion, my normal height desk faced directly towards this same single sister. My eyes now even with her legs, which were always in a pastel-colored skirt, 1 inch above the knee, but tight enough to ride up about 3 to 4 inches above the knee when she sat. (I'm thinking that her name was Judy Martin, but for some reason I remember the exact shape of her legs more clearly than her name). I always thought of her as cute, maybe even pretty, although circumstances could have clouded my judgment.

I talked to her daily and sometimes we'd get away with hours of time talking and working together in the darkrooms. Oddly, she always put on a perky, flirtatious front, but I quickly found her to be lonely and depressed. She was probably 10 years older than me, so we never let the conversation drift toward "romance". I remember once she was mad at me for two days when I referred to her as coquettish, but she forgave me. A very jealous brother in the same department hated me for spending so much time with her. Looking back, I'm surprised he got couldn't get me kicked out, although I know it was the difference in our work assignments that saved me. Judy was one of the first to know of my "apostasy" (my Bible questions) in full detail, and she never turned me in even after two years. She may have thought I had a "spiritual" death wish. It was big news in the department, when Dan Sydlik called me to his office. She and one or two others thought it was the end of my Bethel and/or JW career -- and my always jealous nemesis was gloating.

(As an aside, Sydlik knew I read the Bible with Lengtat and that I was a friend of other "personae non gratae" but when he hinted about this, I merely told him that I didn't want to talk about that, and that I was hoping he'd give me some marriage advice, since I was planning on leaving Bethel in a few months to get married to a sister -- a sister well-known by Fred Rusk, Rinehart, Doc Dixon, and others. His face brightened and he looked relieved himself that I wanted to change the subject.)

I never really noticed a difference in the beauty of married sisters and non-married sisters, with the possible exception of "Sister Sydlik". One of the prettiest sisters at Bethel was a doe-eyed Dutch Gilead student who was rooming with a single sister who was also a friend and next-door neighbor next to the Gilead Library. We spent some study time together but, alas, she was engaged to meet her fiance in her upcoming missionary assignment. I had an older version of U.V. Glass's Gilead notes and we spent some time comparing notes. The most "immoral" thing I ever did at Bethel was give her roommate, Wynn, a back massage. I never thought the back massage was immoral, but we weren't supposed to close the door. Her roommate knew but didn't turn us in. Wynn finally got married, too.

Your comments on racism are interesting. The most racist comments I ever heard at Bethel were from Fred Rusk in Writing. They were about me and how my marriage to his "daughter" (his highly-paraded, freshly baptized "Bible study") was doomed to failure because sooner or later I would end up using the "n" word in anger. So far I've been married to his "daughter" for 28 years and the "n" word has never crossed my mind, except musically.

Greg
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DogpatchRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

alright you guys, you're messin' with my head.

Amicus sez,

I knew Reggie Dewer, didn't he wear bow-ties all the time?  He sold me first pool route (junk accounts he didn't want) when I started pioneering in Canoga Park congo in '72? I believe.  I always got the feeling no one really took Reggie seriously, but he seemed to have pull.  Nice guy, but different, in  Used Car Salesman kind of way. His oldest daughter was a hottie, long red hair. 

I dated her!

Getting deep...

Randy

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DogpatchRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Stop!! Greg sez,

I had fully expected Bethel to be sisterless. I spent only a couple months in the bindery before getting transferred to the air-conditioned Photoplate department on 1-8, and there were 3 sisters there and several more on the same floor doing proofreading/translating. I did artwork and graphics all day sitting on a high chair at a large glass "light table" next to a single sister, and after a promotion, my normal height desk faced directly towards this same single sister. My eyes now even with her legs, which were always in a pastel-colored skirt, 1 inch above the knee, but tight enough to ride up about 3 to 4 inches above the knee when she sat. (I'm thinking that her name was Judy Martin, but for some reason I remember the exact shape of her legs more clearly than her name). I always thought of her as cute, maybe even pretty, although circumstances could have clouded my judgment.

I talked to her daily and sometimes we'd get away with hours of time talking and working together in the darkrooms. Oddly, she always put on a perky, flirtatious front, but I quickly found her to be lonely and depressed. She was probably 10 years older than me, so we never let the conversation drift toward "romance". I remember once she was mad at me for two days when I referred to her as coquettish, but she forgave me. A very jealous brother in the same department hated me for spending so much time with her. Looking back, I'm surprised he got couldn't get me kicked out, although I know it was the difference in our work assignments that saved me. Judy was one of the first to know of my "apostasy" (my Bible questions) in full detail, and she never turned me in even after two years. She may have thought I had a "spiritual" death wish. It was big news in the department, when Dan Sydlik called me to his office. She and one or two others thought it was the end of my Bethel and/or JW career -- and my always jealous nemesis was gloating.

You're killing me! I LOVED Judy, and sat next to her at the table for like 5 years!  I wanted to marry her, but she was not interested. Is she still there? She is on the cover of the tract, "What Do Jehovah's Witnesses Believe?"

this is really a soap opera. cool.

Randy

 

 

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amicusRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
I dated her!

Ha!  I didn't know that.  Nor did I know you studied with Reg.  I thought you were one of Ruthie Tanners gems that she handed off to Kenny T.

I didn't mean to sound harsh when describing Reggie.  I always thought he would have been a great beatnik.  I could so see Reg spouting philosophy and obscure poetry in some coffeehouse somewhere.  He missed his calling in life is all.  He should have been an anointed member of the beat generation.
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jaydeeRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
Great thread , thanks
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Tom CabeenRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate book
Hi Warren,

I also remember Judy Martin quite well. My own wife Gloria came into Bethel as a single girl in 1971. Her last name was Van Aulen. She was assigned to Jim Petrie's table, and Jim was one of my best friends, so he was always telling funny "Cabeen" stories. Possibly that is why she said yes to me when I asked her if she wanted to go out, as many guys had asked her, but she always said no. One of my roommates, Warren Bennett, really liked her, but he never worked up the nerve to ask her. After he left Bethel, I did. I got to know some of the sisters there much better after I got married.

I also remember a funny Dan Sydlik story. One time Dan and I and several other guys were on the elevator. It stopped and a couple of guys got on. The door closed and the elevator continued on. One of the guys said to the other one "Hey I heard this great Polack joke. There was the Polack who had a chicken..." Dan interrupted him at that point. He said "Did you know that I'm Polish?" he said. Without a second's hesitation, the kid responded: "Oh, I'm so sorry." He said, drawing out each word, "Diiid (pause) youu (pause) heeear (pause) the (pause) one (pause) abouuut (pause) the (pause) Poooolllaaak..." Dad just burst out laughing. The door opened and the two guys were gone. I was stunned. I didn't get it at first (I'm Irish). Then I also burst out laughing.

Tom
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NanaRRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
I remmember the Ledley sisters.

Carol and Adele Ledley were "needgreater" pioneers in my congregation in Kentucky before they went to Bethel.  I spent several summers of my teenage years "vacation pioneering" with them.

Lois Borden lived with the Ledley girls here, and Patsy Ferguson came here with them but moved out to live with an elderly brother and sister.  Carol and Adele became special pioneers and left us, then went to Bethel.  Lois left when they did.  Patsy stayed quite a long time.  She was from Ithaca, NY. 

I believe they all got married, and I know that Carol, Adele, and Patsy all had at least one child.  I don't know if Lois ever had any children or not.

Connections, connections -- they never stop!!

Did any of you ever meet Paula Spatz?  She went to Gilead, got engaged, and married her fiance (also a Gilead student) after they got to their assignment in Africa.  Paula was a beautiful girl.

Memory lane...

Ruth

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DogpatchRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Reggie was cool. They were all really good people! The Valley was worked a lot by Forrest and Ruth Tanner and her clan. So many Bethelites came from the San Fernando Valley. I did, Canoga Park.

Hey Tom,

Why not tell the story of how you learned all the news each day at Bethel, which you passed on to me?

Randy

PS Get Tom to tell this one, you've gotta hear it!!

 

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thepackageRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
This thread is AWESOME!!!! I keep reading it over and over. BTW did any over you bethies know Matt Hillyard?
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sammielee24Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Great stories ! Thanks everyone! Anyone know of Robert Huggins who was there in the early 70's? There was also Tim and Melda (?) who worked at the farms, originally from Colorado - I'm not sure if they are still there or not......sam
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tijkmoRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

lourdes guerrero....cant remember her husbands name..he was a joiner..and a little bit older than her tho not outrageously so.

they left when she fell pregnant.

anyone??

 

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gymbobRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Hey everyone!

  I've been away for awhile but this thread is great and I just had to post something!

First, Jim Petrie was a good friend, and we were in the same cong. in Brooklyn for 4+ years back in the mid-late 70's. I saw him several years ago at a DC in central Calif., didn't have too much time to speak but he looked good. He should be here now......

  Judy Martin was also in that same cong., a sweet, humble, prettier young single bethel sister you would not have found back then. Also in our Bay Ridge Cong. was another single bethel girl named Anita Berazza, she and Judy hung around together alot (safety in numbers!) she was also a sweetie but had a few more pounds than Judy and didn't get the same attention her way. Anita had a younger brother at bethel named Rueben (pressroom I think?), also in the same Bay Ridge Congregation in Brooklyn

  One of my favorite bethel stories involved the lunchtime softball games next to the factory...anyone here play on one of those teams? Back in the 70's almost every factory dept. had a softball team and we would skip lunch and play fastpitch softball on the blacktop baseball fields next to the factory bldgs. I played for the Ink room team, also Dispatch and also umpired a game or two a week (Hey, I liked softball!).

  Anyway, one game I was umpiring behind the plate and Dan Sydlik was pitching. Yes the GB Sydlik! He was a pretty good pitcher but let others bat for him, he wouldn't do any running.

So the count is 3 balls and 1 strike, Dan's pitch comes in high and inside and I yell out, "ball 4, take your base!" About that time I get a look from Sydlik that to this day I will never forget! He looks at me and says (in that deep Jehovah drama voice)....."BROTHER??!!"

  What could I do? so without even hesitating I yell out, "STRIKE TWO!!"  Made the batter mad as hell....   Gymbob

 

 

 

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