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amicusRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!


Reggie was cool. They were all really good people! The Valley was worked a lot by Forrest and Ruth Tanner and her clan. So many Bethelites came from the San Fernando Valley. I did, Canoga Park.
I couldn't agree more.  I don't know if it was the times (so soon after the 60's) or Forest and Ruth Tanners influence.  Those were good times though.  If Forest had decided rather than preach the good news, we should annex CA.  We would probably be teaching the US some basic lessons in diplomacy rather than allowing them to commit to the idiocy that they have.  That man had charisma.  So sad it was misdirected.
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FishermanRe: Re: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

One of the Ledley sisters died of Breast cancer a while back. She got married in PA around 1975. She married a bethelite.

No one remmembers Eva Wilson? She was hot!               Im sure I remmember Judy Martin by face or legs but I dont temmeber her name. I looked at every sis face in Bethel and I never forget a beautiful woman.

I didnt like Sydlik. Only gb I did not like.

Gamaliel, If you worked in art you would remmember a bro S. Kolb.(thats not me) The end sheet gluer I remmeber was designed by bros. It stood on the right as you came into 2/7 after crossing the over pass.  Where the smashers those noisy machines in the 3floor, or were those the gatherers?

By the way after so many years of making Bethel your career , these bros that put their lives into int sadly got sent home (out in the field)

Reinhard taught  Bible classes in Bethel. I remember that. I sat in a couple of times. Liked the bros, respected him, still do.

After work in Beth, some bros would have clasess and teach something. some languages,..etc

Wooodulf sis names were Jael and Linda. Iinda got marrried around 76. Dont recal if she brought her husdband in or if they left.

The basement of the 124 was the laundry or was it the 107? It was an oven down there. They had fans going all of the time but it did not help. I felt sorry for some of the sisters that I knew that worked there. Only one place worse than the Bindery and that was it.

Anyone remmeber the Desmosthenes bros, I think that they worked in the pressroom, Most press workers lived in 58.  58 I remmember was the wildest building. Does bros could drink!  in them days, Coors beer was the best, I knew a bro who's dad sent him cases of corrs from colorado, think his name was kerry, also a pressman. 

L. Borden worked in Spanish translation. I though she was in love with Dean S.  DS is very very frail nowdays. You would not recognize him. He looks very old and weak and even his voice in very weak. I though that DS was one of the most important bros in the wts. The man could do anyhing from lay bricks to design a rocket ship.

Ray Franz was one of the most frequent at Morning worship and at noon who presided. The three main main guys(most heavy) were uncle nat, freddy and ray.  Swingle also carried a lot of weight and so did shroderer

Max Larsen was factory overseer and DS assitant (among other respons) but Dean was much more qualified that Max. Max did not need hair he could comb his eyebrows over his head if need be.

DS is an engineer. I think that he was from texas. He had secular trainning. I dont think that Randy W. did. I was surprised how a young bro like Randy knew so much. Some one had donated some monster press to the wts and Randy W was to put it together. Where did he learn how to do that I thought to myself.

Anyone remmeber that bro who plyed the accordion, he played that thing at every bethelites wedding.

Soy burgers for supper and pancakes for breakfast on sundays. Where did they serve super? Wasnt it in the basement of the 124?

 

Anyone remmeber that husdnabd and wife team gleammers? That couple could gleam!  Seconds after prayer aftere the meal if posible before they were at our table. Bro worked in dispatch. They were both kkinda short in stature.

That sentinal watchman duty. I never could find those locks. I didnt like doing that. I was really scared going in that dark room next to dispatch.

 

Bethel key fit all of the locks. You were in! Even if you went to the farm or to Walkill, that key was all you needed to get in.

How about washing them dishes in the machine room with  the rainsuit.  Steam WAter all over the place.

key number on your underwear. Did sis get their key numbers on their panties?

One had very litle free time to get into trouble and even less counting dish duties, watchman duties and kh construction...

I remmeber the bus loads of beautiful sis that came in from all over the usa Man, the wts had some really beautiful women I thought. But in the New York cong that we were asigned to was nothing and I visted other congs too and same thing.  Some of these Bethel lifers, eventually gave up trying to fing the pretty one and settled for someone in local cong. Im happy for the sis but sometimes I though that the bro made a mistake. Even now, I have heard it still happens.

Who was the hottest sis iin Bethel back in them days?

 

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hemp lover
Gymbob, my uncle used to play in the softball games, I think. Al Marshang - he's been in Brooklyn since 1967, starting in linotype and then page layout for years now. I'm glad he escaped the layoffs as I don't think he'd be able to function in the real world after four decades of Bethel.

Was there a basketball court in the Squibb building? I have a memory of shooting hoops there when I was maybe eight years old, but I could be hallucinating.
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GamalielRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

gymbob,

I really liked Peach. And I know what you mean about how he "should be here". Maybe some people are happier as JWs, but there are so many that you'd just about die for to set them free. I really liked Anita Berazza, too. Very pleasant. One of those voices that always brings a hapy feeling.

Her brother Reuben was in my wedding party along with RMangels (Computer Dept), and Warren, of course. Reuben was my first good friend at Bethel. We started in the Bindery together (Anselm Packnett's area). We came into Bethel at about the same time. First we practiced tempting the jaws of the "Smasher" with our fingers 5,000 times a week for two weeks, then an end-sheet gluer for another two weeks, then I went off to try to set the best productions records since 1927 for the 50th anniversary of a cantankerous cover-maker. (Still remember the noxious smell of Noxon I used daily to shine up that beautiful old machine.)

I got transferred out of the bindery too early for softball, but someone already told me your pitching story. Sydlik could always mix likeable qualities with an ego. My first couple of winters, we brought skis and sleds to run down the hill by Squbb and pulled ourselves back up with a rope. For skiing, I later learned that the Sierra Nevadas has a slight edge over Brooklyn.

When were you there?

Greg

 

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biff mcflyRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Why is it that Sydlik was such a prick? Everyone, including me, seems to have had a bad run in with this guy. Is he naturally an A-Hole or did he just get a power trip being a GB member?

Also, a confession...I never did a dish duty my entire three years at Bethel. Started working night shift in the pressroom and when I got back to days, nobody in the pressroom ever informed dish duty assigners. I was so lucky.

Best looking sister...There was a family there, the Albrechts, came there from Alaska, I think the Dad was an engineer, he had two daughters, one of them..I think named Wendy, worked in Factory Electric and used to make the night shift pressmen breakfast in the factory kitchen...i had a thing for her...nice girl, nice body...used to see her on the factory roof getting a suntan occassionally.....woowwwwww...I was such an idiot never to have asked her out on a date...but the mindset was to just treat her as a sister....dohhhhhhhhhhhh!

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Tom CabeenRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
Hey Tom,

Why not tell the story of how you learned all the news each day at Bethel, which you passed on to me?

Randy


Sorry, Randy, but I am not really sure what story you are talking about here. Maybe I have forgotten something; can you clarify for me? Certainly there was not one source for my information.

As pressroom overseer I met with Writing, Art Department, Factory Committee, Publishing Committee. I also had lots of individual friends with while I was at Bethel, like Colin Quackenbush. I also had a couple of close friends on the GB, Dan Sydlik (whom, apparently, quite a few posters here didn't like) and Ray Franz. I also did lots of recordings for the Gilead Office, and the recording studio was always a good source for the latest rumors.

I was also very active with both the Spanish and French work, and had lots of friends there.

Some of the guys in my congregation were in Writing (Dave Giltinan and Service (John Bechtel), so that was another source of info. Fred Maes always seemed to have the inside scoop on things. Plus the craziness of you pressroom guys kept me in regular touch with the...how shall I phrase it...judicial element there at HQ.

Is there something I have forgotten? Clue me in...

Tom
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gymbobRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

I started out on 2/7 working on a Smyth sig stitcher back in 76', me and a guy named Dave Straud from Tennessee used to have production battles to see who could sew the most sigs in a day. Then I inspected books for about a year. Floor overseer was Dave Ersland. Other names on that floor were Phil Harding from PA, Richard Chambers who worked in cardcutting, and Dave Ashley who thought he was the best basketball player on the floor until I took him to the proverbial hoop one day!

  We played basketball down at the Squibb bldg. on most Wednesday nights, the floor of course was not wood but thick concrete and most of us paid for that later in life with bad knees, but whatever, the world was coming to an end anytime soon, right everybody?!

  Then I was assigned to the Ink Room on 1/5 and spent the rest of my days at bethel there working with guys like John Parham, Peter Coconis (best man at my wedding), Gilbert Cyriacs from Marysville, KS, and of course our floor overseer Norman Brekke.

  We would see alot of tours come through the Ink Room, most really thought it smelled bad, but we were so use to it. I remember one day a bucket of pastel blue ink fell from a top shelf right on my head.....it took weeks to get it all out. For those of you who worked the presses it was the color code 14P.

 Before I came to Brooklyn I worked at Mammoth Onyx Cave in Kentucky as a tour guide, so I was assigned once a week as a factory tour guide and got to meet many witnesses from around the world. Most were very friendly and just wanted to "know" somebody at bethel. So, many of the tours would offer to take the tour guides out to dinner or give tips, it was great! 

  Many tours were made up of parents trying to marry off their daughters. I met many young beautiful pioneer girls this way. The only problem was, I was too stupid to know what was going on, really! Being a born-and-raised dub I was sooo naive!      Gymbob

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GamalielRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

gymbob,

I also started in 76.

Pete Coconis sounds familiar, or was there someone else with a name more like Pete Baconi?

Rarely played basketball. But I went down there a couple times. I remember they put up a couple of bowling lanes but they weren't very popular because you had to set the pins up manually.

Funny about the ink bucket falling on you "out of the blue" like that. Sounds like a slap-stick comedy scene. Or what's that music group, The Blue Man Group that let's the drums splatter paint all over them? 

I somehow got in good with Albert Schroeder for a while and got assigned to give some Gilead group tours in Manhattan. My most memorable experience was taking them to St Patrick's Church in mid-Manhattan, and then finding that there was always one or two who were afraid to go inside.

Greg

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gymbobRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Greg~

  Peter Coconis was raised a SoCal boy like me (by way of Kentucky) we came to bethel together and eventually roomed together. After I left Brooklyn, he married a girl from NJ. Then a few years went by and they got pregnant (they know what causes that now too!) so  they headed to North Carolina where his family ended up waiting for the paradise to come. The last I heard, he was, what else, doing janitorial work.

 

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1914BSRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Hi TOM!!!

It sure is good to see you here on JWD.  I read your bio experience at bethell - amazing how they tried you in kangaroo court.  The GB never thanked you for all that hard work you did setting up those new presses . Hek you and Randy ran that whole damn show back then!!. 

I have always wanted to ask you Tom, about subliminal artwork in the WT publications.  There is subliminal artwork that can be found in the WT publications.  A good example of this is Pascal Petits pic on page 93 of the live forever book.  She had already done several Lesbian movies by the time that she shows up in the live forever book back in 1982..  The live forever book and the rev climax book both have Jests.  Examples: the face in the hand in the rev climax book. Jests can also be found in the WT mags both in the text and pictures. Notable example is the lame horse in the feb 15 2008 WT. Also there has been discovered a triangle that has made 3 appearances in WT publications. The purpose of this triangle evidently is to convey a subliminal message.  The triangle is being used a sort of a hypnotic visual cue to convey the intended message to select target audience.  This is just one way the GB portrays itself as being so omnipotent.

So, when you were at bethell, were you aware of any members of the art dept who might have put jests into the WT publications??

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Tom CabeenRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
Thanks for the kudos, 1914, but I had lots of help to do what we did. I did learn a lot along the way, but we all did. Randy was a great foreman. So was Jim Petrie, Darryl Block, Dana Primiano, Harry Johnson, and many others. And just about all the press operators were good guys, hard working, honest and sincere. I think one reason I was as successful as I was at Bethel is that I never forgot that these guys were volunteers, that they (at some point at least) wanted to be there, and that if I could just smooth the way for them, they would work hard and have a good time in the process. And just about all the time, it worked.

Regarding your questions about subliminal artwork, I am not much of a conspiracy theorist. I have a book or two that show WT artwork with things like goats and other stuff in it. Some of it is pretty convincing, as far as the shapes themselves. Of course, when I was there, most of the artwork was pretty simple. It has gotten much more complicated since the switchover to offset printing that happened when I was there.

It is of course possible for some artist to put some little hidden drawing in his work, for any number of reasons (the late caricaturist Al Hirschfield used to always hide his niece Ninas's name in his drawings just for fun), but since it will be printed and distributed to millions, he or she had better have a good reason for it if someone catches it, and with that many copies around, that could happen pretty easily.

Psychological manipulation using subliminal messages is some pretty sophisticated stuff. Things like that require mental resources that are just not available there at Bethel. I would find it nearly impossible to believe any of the people I knew there capable of doing something like that.

Even assuming that there is some evil genius there that could design and implement subliminal psychological messages, (and there isn't; trust me on this) what would the messages purpose be? Loyal JWs will obey just about anything the WTS wants them to do. If you can tell people in plain English that they may not take a blood transfusion and they obey even if it means their child will die, what more could you possibly expect from them through some subliminal messages? I saw some silly brochure recently that says that women cannot wear denim skirts when they tour Bethel. Believe me, if they have that much control, why waste time on subliminal messages?

Really good cons are hard to pull off and are mostly the stuff of movies (like The Sting, one of my all time favorites). In the real world, they are pretty rare. Remember the debacle about the staged rescue of Pfc. Jessica Lynch from an Iraqi hospital? If the US Government with all their brains and resources couldn't pull one over, what chance does the WTS have to do so? That is my opinion anyway...

Tom
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FishermanRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

I was naive too. Was the pressrom on the 6 floor? 

Does anyone remmeber Minor Buzby from OK. He went back and forth with the electric pallet jack from the preesroom to the bindery?

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GamalielRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Tom,

Since I worked in Photoplate for a few years and did several pieces of art for the Art Department, I'd have to concur with you. Granted there may have been some artists before I was there or after I left who managed to slip something in to make their mark, but I never saw it attempted on purpose from 1977 to 1980. And I think it would have been even more difficult in the following years after 1980. They still had some of the same people behind the the cameras for years after I was there, and I know how difficult it would have been to slip something like this past Brother Robinson or ANY of the others for that matter. (By camera, I mean the cameras that took pictures of original artwork to ultimately create printing plates for the presses.) 

When I used to post more often on this site, I wrote up my feelings about it here:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/56369/827656/post.ashx#827656

I believe it was David Taciak I was talking to (also in Photoplate at the time) who joked with me about a certain artist at 124 who might have been crazy enough to try putting his initials, or some other form of signature, on a piece of art. (David finally got transferred from Photoplate to a permanent position in the Art Dept.) But as I mention in the link above, it was more trouble to keep accidental "subliminals" OUT of the artwork. We'd often see something that came too close to looking like a face in a bush or cloud, or the smear of erasures that didn't "drop out" as well as the artists hoped. We'd often have to shoot something 10 times on the camera to avoid places where we suspected the final print was going to have unrealistic looking water reflections, or shadows that were too strong, or the like. We were pretty good, but sometimes the artist would sometimes see something on the proof that we missed, and sometimes they'd redo it, or we'd touch up the art for them.

In reality, very few of the artists were actually very good at folds in cloth and clothing, or folds in the skin of a hand or wrinkled brow. When an artist is drawing, they will often see a face forming in the cloud and redo it. Even a photograph that might be copied for a picture can have branches making swastikas, and crosses, or clouds that look like a fist "flipping a bird" and the artist is sometimes aware of these problems in a graphic or photograph and UNDOES these things in the art even where the original innocent photograph accidentally created them. (Photos are sometimes too perfect, and don't look natural enough without changes.) But that doesn't mean the artist is going to catch all the subtle things that can show up in his final art AT ALL ANGLES. Some bored person at the Watchtower Study is going to scrutinize a picture from upside-down or sideways and see a face that the artist didn't catch, or a "NINA" in someone's hair. 

Also, we were always trying to get used to how the new printing methods were going to treat color and shadow. And then sometimes you guys would just lay the ink on too thick (lol) and it was unpredictable.

I think that a lot of people don't realize that the mind is pre-wired to pick out faces from the surroundings and certain "out of place" objects, shapes and edges - even if these differencxes are extremely subtle. Too many straight lines in nature will jar the mind and make us conjure up a man-made object. Even babies are psychologically wired to pick up on the slightest variations in faces. Everyone sees a man in the moon. Animals with honed hunting instincts have extremely keen senses for picking out "edges" that don't belong: such as fur among leaves, eyes hiding behind bushes. And there have been numerous studies of how the human mind will automatically get tricked to fill in white spaces with imaginary "suggested" edges.

I haven't given much thought to why so many people tend to find "demonic" images. But faces tend to be unavoidable, and especially the ones that are missed in quality control will often be distorted and therefore might naturally look demonic. It's almost a cliche that a frightened, restless child can see a few extra claws and scary faces in the shadows and branches of a tree scratching near his window after the lights go out. Perhaps it's somewhat analagous that those who now see the dark and scary side of the Watchtower will, therefore, pick up on a few more of these problems in Watchtower artwork, even if it's no more purposeful than those random scratchings of branches through the glass, darkly.

Greg 

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Tom CabeenRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
Great posts, Greg, both this one and the one you provided the link for.

You obviously thought the whole thing out more thoroughly than I did. I just sort of shot from the hip because in my experience it is hard enough to get things to work out even when you have everyone helping you and you are wide open about everything.

I agree with you completely, and I can confirm that you have described the situation there just about perfectly.

Tom
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TheListenerRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
Can anyone provide an update on Tim Pappas?
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TheListenerRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Tom,

Can you provide some stories on what being friends with Sydlik was like?

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FishermanRe: Re: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Tom,

In what building did you live?

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FishermanRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

GymBob,

Recently, I heard news about Norm Brekke. He is still in Blyn NY He was cong overseer until last year he let someone else preside.  I saw him a couple of years ago too. Short stubby bro, he looked the same only older But you would recognize him. Who was PO in your cong while you were at Bethel?

 

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FishermanRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
I didnt see how bethelites liked going to the Gilead graduattion in upper New York. Man, I did not want to go . It lasted a long time. I couldnt wait for it to end. I gave my tickets to bethelite friends that had their family over in excahnge for theirs at a latter date but the wts prohibited doing that later on. Hours and hours of sitting down and listenning to lectures. I had work at the asseblies so the time went by fast there. It takes a lot of discipline to sit throuh hours and hours and hours of talks, and we did it back then
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biff mcflyRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

gymbob,

i think i might know you. don't want to shout out your last name if you're not comfortable with that. did you trade me your skis for a pistol in Glasgow, Kentucky in 1986?

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