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Seeker4Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!


fjtoth:

Kathleen Campbell was a very good friend of mine for many years. Her son in law was my best friend as a Witness. We served together many years.

Kathleen is still alive in her 90s, and doing well considering her age. She is wonderfully outspoken at times. I guess she complained quite loudly the last time the congregation had to study the Revelation book at the book study yet again!

She has a DFed grandson that I see several times a year and who is a friend. A few years ago Kathleen wrote her memoir. Quite a life - from WW II living in London to war bride to US citizen and successful single businesswoman.

S4

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DogpatchRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Jim Petrie (Peach) was the best. We miss him lots, hope he shows up some day out of Watchtower land!

Randy

Cab and Peach

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DogpatchRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
Tom and Gloria circa 1976?
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DogpatchRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Tom and Gloria 1976

sorry!

 

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OtisBarkerRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Wow. You guys needed some pocket-protectors.

 

BTW, Randy...please forgive me for my nasty email to you years ago. Damnable apostates that you were!

Just look at me now...

 

Otis

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Tom CabeenRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate book
Hey! At least you could make out the tune, which you couldn't do when you read some of the the Watchtower articles that were out at the same time. And we had a heck of a lot more fun doing that than we did in service!

Tom :-)
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Tom CabeenRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate book
To my friend Frank Toth

Hi Frank,

I admit that I haven't thought about many of these things in a quarter of a century. I just sort of put them away in the back closet part of my mind and moved on. But my healing was over many years ago, and there is no hurt connected with any of these memories. I am honestly having a ball walking down memory lane...

Hope you are doing well, Frank. My best to you!

Tom
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wschroederRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
Tom, You've haven't changed much since those early pictures I see. I also played with another small group that included Billy Black (of the Black family on the Promenade), Chris ?, myself, and Valerie ? (she was a cripple in a wheelchair). Valerie loved Joni Mitchell and did a great job on her music. The rest of our presentation was Pure Praire Leauge, Poco, NGDG, and Eagles. We played mostly for small JW gatherings locally. it all fell apart after Billy Black was df'd. Warren
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JWdaughterRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
Randy, I always love hearing from you, and thanks for introducing us to Warren S.

I was just reading about "secret Bible studies" and I thought how ironic it was that you all had to keep them SECRET at a place where they print Bibles(or a reasonable facsimile thereof).

I have only in recent years connected my young girl questioning and dis-association with the things I have read about going on in Bethel at the time. It was in 1981/2 that I started asking questions (out loud) to the gal who studied with me(who sicced the elders on me-in all earnestness).

I was fifteen and my 'challenges' to the 'truth' was regarding the Alpha and Omega. I just kept hearing them repeat what the WT said, showed them how the Bible didn't agree and would really not let up-not to be ornery, but because I really DID NOT understand how it could all just come down to "accepting what the FDS has dispensed". Basically, it wasn't my scholarship or intelligence that was in question, but my loyalty. I didn't even know what DA'ing WAS. I wasn't baptised-had grown up in the KH. That was my only exposure to religion. I knew I hadn't done anything WRONG, so I could not comprehend or even fathom what was happening to me as I met with the elders.

How paranoid was the organization that a 15 year olds questions would result in disassociation? About as paranoid as the one I read about from former Bethelites. Learning what was going one there, and seeing personally how it trickled down to the congregations--well it is telling me a lot about the character of this 'man made' organization.

My first clue should have been right after the WT that justified the 1975 debacle. As I now think of it. We had a youth WT study that met most sat. nights. On that night, a 'prominent' elder, a nice guy, the father of a friend, was our chaperone. We had one at every one of the studies. We generally stayed on track, but sometimes would have studied ahead and brought up questions, issues, quandries. As you can imagine, that study was lengthy and involved. This elder told us a LOT of what was going on (most of us were pre-adolescent in 1975. I was 9)in the adult JW world at that time. The kinds of financial shenanigans that people were doing to either take advantage of what they thought would happen(not exactly clear on what WAS supposed to happen, but the world as we knew it was supposed to end) or in reckless spending-as they thought they would have no use for money anymore. People made large donations to the org "to show faith". Perhaps they were essentially buying indulgences. I don't know. In any case, this elder had done some things himself that reflected his conviction of what would transpire. He had some serious setbacks in the years afterward. He was a local businessman and I think he came off feeling kind of ridiculous and he seemed sheepish at the study. So,within weeks-a couple-our little study of 10-15 youths ended. I am sure you all know the reasons given. There were better uses for our time(7-10pm on a Sat night? HUH? kept us out of trouble!)Independent thinking(not the words they used, but definitely the issue that they really had) was dangerous.

So, the studies ended, and so did most of my JW social life. Which was probably good for ME, as it resulted in my having more 'worldly' friends/acquaintances and made the transition easier when I was expelled.

At the time, I never heard of Franz(the internal workings of the Borg were not something I would have paid attention to). Soon after, I was shown an article about him in "Time" magazine. Interesting stuff, there:) I think he was featured in the magazine right before I was DA'd.(later that spring).
is
These days, JWs have a lot more resources, and many less excuses for staying, IMO. Now it is only cultivated and deliberate ignorance that would keep one in it.

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Dogpatch: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
You guys need to cough up some of your tunes. I'll put them up if you do!
Brings back the CRAZY old days...
Randy
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DogpatchRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Hi JWdaughter, and thank you!

Otisbarker: Hey man, I'm used to it.  :-)) Good to see ya here.

Hi Frank Toth,

Sorry we don't talk more, but good to see you post here as well.

Randy

Watchtower World

 

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MulanRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
Kory Tideman (pronounced TEED a mun), a very talented musician who played mandolin, and Kenner Dull, who played guitar. We had a lot of fun together. At the time, bluegrass was hot and we were heavily influenced by The Nitty Gritty Dirt Band's recently-released two-album set called "Will the Circle be Unbroken" One time we tried to learn to play that song ("Circle") by sitting back to back in a circle (four of us), with our arms sort crossed, each of us plucking one instrument with our right hand, and fingering another instrument with our left hand. For example, I would sit with Jim on my left and Kory on my right, and Kenner behind me. I would hold my banjo to my left and pick it while Jim fingered it. Meanwhile, Kory would hold his mandolin to his left and pick it with his right hand, while I fingered it with my left. It was crazy and we never had enough time to get it down well enough to perform in public, but we had a lot of laughs practicing it.
Kory is one of our closest friends...............still plays guitar and mandolin.............by the way, he mastered that song.
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Tom CabeenRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate book
OtisBarker:

Before we came along, no one used pocket protectors. We started the trend. We basically defined what "nerds" were. Silicon Valley stole it from us. Just like the WTS, we were major trend setters! Also just a bit delusional! :-)


Warren:

I remember Billy and the Blacks. I drove his grandma to the New York assemblies a few times in their big Lincoln, but I never got to know any of them that well. Shortly after that, I got married and was busy with other things like secret Bible studies and learning how to print with offset presses.

I don't know how much I have changed since my Bethel days. I sometimes feel that I am pretty much the same basic person. But as my wife reminded me, at Bethel we were in an unrealistic environment. I had a lot to learn about life in the real world. I also had a lot to learn about true friendship (BTW, I wrote a song with that title, which I sang at Stan and Julie Weigel's wedding). I found that most of my friendships were not as solid as I thought they were. But I have no bad feelings about the JWs who shunned me. That religious perspective really inclines one toward mental illness, and I simply regard them as having a form of illness. I do not think I ever really had any enemies among them.

JWDaughter:

My heart breaks for you, my dear! It must have been so confusing and difficult for a young person to be encouraged to study regularly, then when you do, you get DA'd without a clue as to what was going on. And at such a young age! At least we were adults when it happened. I hope you have healed, and have met wonderful people who love you and have helped you understand what happened, and that you have freed yourself by forgiving those who did this bad thing, and have moved on.

Tom

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Tom CabeenRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate book
Mulan,

Thanks for the update. If you can, give Kory my best. Probably the best thing he ever did for his musicianship was to play with people who played better than me! I sure liked him, and have nothing but great memories of the time we spent together.

Tom
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owenfieldreamsRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!

Tom,

I've enjoyed reading the experiences of you and Randy over the years on the 'net.  You both give a lot of insight and true perspective into what went on in Brooklyn back in the late 70s/early 80's.  Btw, do you have much or any contact with Peter Gregerson?  Is he still around, and what's he up to these days?

 

Owen

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wschroederRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
Taking a walk down memory lane at Bethel...,

Do you remember, soon after arriving at Bethel, someone asking you to "moon Manhattan"?

Did you ever have to deal with the Bethel "scourge"? I did, and on 2 occasions. The second time didn't scare the hell out of me like the first.

Warren
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Tom CabeenRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate book
Hi Owen,

Yes, Peter and I are great friends. I see him at least once a year, and we talk on the phone every few months. He is a wonderful man, whom I deeply respect. He has a wonderful family as well. I know nearly all of them. Peter and Janet still live in Rainbow City, Alabama.

Tom
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Tom CabeenRe: Re: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate book
Hi Warren,

Never heard of either one of them. That must of been for new boys, Warren. I was already a "heavy" when you got there. :-) Maybe someone else remembers.

Tom
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wschroederRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
For the newboy physical Doc Dixon would open the curtain on the west side and let the light in, and then ask you to Moon Manhattan, so he could finish the anal examination.

The "scourge" was the severe Jock Rash that you got from newly washed underwear. My roommates John Sullivan and Peter ?, who worked in laundry, called it the Bethel scourge. I did not bring it up as regular conversation, but I thought that it part of normal events for Bethelites.

The first time I saw Doc Dixon with the rash, that covered about a good portion of my inner leg and testicle area, I was embarrassed due to what they might think.. out of sight of others. He took a 10-second look and told me it was jock itch/rash and came from the laundry. He gave me a tube of medicated ointment, which cleared it up pretty quickly. At a later date the rash showed up again, but this time I simply told the nurse at the front I had jock rash and she handed me a tube of the ointment and I was on my way. It was the last time the problem showed itself.

I never had this before Bethel, and never since my last breakout while there.

Warren
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wschroederRe: Warren Schroeder from Bethel on Freddy, Kline and the apostate books!
Tom says: Never heard of either one of them. That must of been for new boys, Warren. I was already a "heavy" when you got there. :-) Maybe someone else remembers.

Yes, you were a Bethel heavy when I got there. We could feel your thunderous steps all the way to the Building 4 electrical office.... then I learned it was just the paper rolls getting dropped. :-)

Warren
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